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Thursday, September 15, 2005

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FreeThinker

Sorry, I don't get it!

Steve

Ding! The last sentence says it ALL.

Keith

Excellently said!

tony sheng

Hi Tod,
Thanks for the post about the kingdom.... I've been asked to do a little talk on one of the parables... and been mulling on it for a bit.... I think you are right - 'the kingdom of God' is crucial, but also really difficult to get.
I appreciate the perspective, I think you helped jump start some more thinking on my part... so Thanks!

George

Tod -- you are being used! Great explanation of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is primarily about the King, isn't it? There's a logic to why it's not called the Peopledom or Subjectdom.

While we call God our Father, too often we think of Him as our favorite uncle, the one who occasionally shows up for a visit and gives us presents without any great expectations of us.

Thanks for your service, Tod.

kevin

It seems somehow disingenuous for modern pastors to question why their congregants do not "get" the kingdom.

Did you tell them about it from the beginning or only after they had been with you for 2 years?

People go to modern churches and modern pastors to be inspired and counseled and affirmed. That's how you all have set the table. Then, you wonder why they don't get the Kingdom?

There is no mystery here.

You won't find anything in your conclusion which wasn't there in your premise. Modern pastors serve up a gospel of easy believism and cheap grace. And then you expect the people to walk on the narrow and hard road that leads to life?

Uh-uh. It doesn't work that way.

No, there is no mystery here at all. Only the fearful prospect of standing before the King after tricking people into the Kingdom via a seeker-friendly, culturally sensitive, felt-need oriented appeal.

Better to declare the demands of discipleship from the beginning. Better for you and better for the flock.

And better for the world. At least then the world have an authentic witness to what Christianity really is. As it stands now, all they get as a witness is an effeminized social club seeking inspiration for life and a place to raise their families.

The world doesn't get it because the church doesn't get it. And the church doesn't get it because modern pastors don't get it. And modern pastors don't get it because they didn't enter the ministry for the right reasons. It's not a profession and it's not about helping people in the first place. It's about heralding the Kingdom. Everything else must done from that perspective and in that context.

But that context drives folk away.
The Kingdom is radical in it's demands and radical is just not what modern people want.

Conclusion:

Those who should "get" it, those who are responsible to "get" it, just don't. There's your problem.
Modern ministers are your problem.
Not the poor guy in the pew who was lured to Christ by an inspiring message and a bustling church program.

Carol

Well, I'd thought I got it.

Kevin, with people walking into the doors of a church for the first time each Sunday, at what point should a preacher begin the topic of the Kingdom in order to make sure each person sitting before him gets it before the minister can move on to other Biblical topics? Two years seems a very short time to cover all Biblical teaching. Since the Gospel of salvation should be taught at every available opportunity (Sundays, especially), and there definitely should be a message given peripheral to the Gospel, when should the minister squeeze in the finer points of the Kingdom so everyone gets it by the end of the hour each and every week?

Making sure everyone, every single Sunday, clearly understands any Biblical teaching other than the Gospel of Christ and Him crucified, seems logistically impossible for a human to take on. It seems there will always be points, such as what all is involved in the concept of God's Kingdom, that people will learn about as they grow.

I do appreciate your points regarding what you refer to as modern churches and pastors appeasing what folks perceive they need and want to hear. Everyone needs to hear the Gospel - even the hard-to-hear parts about sin and the need for repentance - right away and every day. It can't be done too much. Small groups, Bible studies, etc., seem good places to learn about spiritual gifts, the armor of God, the end times, the Kingdom and so forth.

There's a lot to cover. Where would you start?

Thank you for the thought-provoke.

kevin

Hi Carol--

There is no Gospel apart from the Kingdom. It is not as if the Gospel is the main thing and Kingdom teaching needs to be fitted around it somehow. No, the Gospel is the tip of the iceberg. The Kingdom is that which supports the tip.

Put another way, the Gospel is derivative of the Kingdom. And the call of the Gospel is a call to enter the Kingdom and live according to Kingdom values and ideals, which is discipleship.

The Gospel is the door to a new way living in this world. You get forgiveness, cleansing and newness at the door of Savior Jesus, but it's not an end in itself. If you don't tell people of the Kingdom ethic and Kingdom responsibilities then one fails to understand the very purpose of the Gospel. It is not to get men saved, in the first place. It is to create genuine followers of Jesus who live according to His Kingdom in the midst of time and history.

Salvation is the door and it is crucial to God's redemptive program that people go through that door. But the point here is that matters of no less cruciality exist for the believer in the Kingdom realm on the other side of that door.

Modern ministry is terribly reductionistic. It gets people to the door, into the door way, as it were, but it leaves them there. In fact, it tricks them into the doorway. Because they are led there under false pretenses. They are not told of the radical Kingdom life which is required of them by King Jesus on the other side of the door. Not only are they not told of Kingdom discipleship, just the very opposite is held out to them. "Come through the door to inspiriation. We'll teach you how to manage your sins. We've got great programs for your children. There are lots of people just like you trying to find spirituality in the midst of this chaotic modern world."

You see, it's just the opposite of Kingdom discipleship.

Jesus puts a cross into the arms of believers as they move through the door of salvation. Modern ministers give them advice on how to juggle life's priorities in a responsible way.

LK 9:23 Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

LK 9:24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

Kate

I get it. And, I accept completely responsibilty to keep on getting it. I don't blame Pastors or teachers or fellow pew people for my lack of knowledge or wisdom. The Lord said He would give me what I need if only I would seek, knock and ask. The kingdom is within. God is good...to me.

Paula

It happens to be an irony I believe and this is not unusual since irony appears in the Bible. We gain eternal life with God when we believe in His son -- no death or separation from God. But then we die to self and our devotion is to Him -- now. When He said He came that we could have abundant life, he meant life 'in Him', here and now.
Thank you for posting on this. It can be tempting to concentrate on only one or two aspects of the Good News.

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